#pro orochimaru

[comikadraws]

Would you have wanted orochimaru to die or just be punished for his evil deeds in a way that doesn't involve him necessarily dying?

Yesn't.

Don't get me wrong. I certainly wouldn't have minded Orochimaru's death. And I agree that some people are, for the sake of humanity, better off dead. That's all your Voldemorts, Palpatines, and Saurons - The cliché "dark lords". The problem is that Kishimoto treated Orochimaru with far too much kindness to begin with.

Orochimaru doesn't really fit the "personification of pure evil" caricature, and is characterized as a person instead. On top of that, unlike the aforementioned villains, Orochimaru didn't pose an active threat to the world which then hits us with an ethical question:

Do humans have the right to decide who lives or dies?

And what justifies killing? Survival? Improval? Feelings? Can we trust humans to determine these parameters?

And now add to that that I grew up on ATLA as a child and generally do not believe in death sentences...

The problem is, in real life, people like Orochimaru don't change and don't redeem themselves. There is no "I killed 59 newborns for funsies but now I'm a loving and responsible parent".

I think the better question to ask here is whether Kishimoto should've given Orochimaru a redemption or not. Because if Orochimaru had never been redeemed, he would've remained as a danger to the world, and killing him would have been the obvious choice. But Kishi instead redeemed him, leaving us with this moral dilemma.

[shyflowerhologram]

Sasuke's War Crimes?!

today I saw several posts talking about how Sasuke should have been punished for war crimes. War Crimes. Let me consult Wikipedia:

War crimes - all the things Konoha had done.

What is Sasuke's unforgivable war crime? I've been trying to find answer for years. - Killing Samurai in combat? Sasuke was there for Danzo, if they stepped back he had no interest in them. - Killing Danzo? Maniac who orchestrated Uchiha genocide, why nobody thanked Sasuke for ending that scum? - breaking into Kage summit? If we want righteousness, then other Kages should have executed Danzo themselves. Or at least draft an apology later for trying to stop Sasuke. - Trying to kill Sakura? She was literally there to kill him, she had attacked first. - Trying to kill Naruto? It sound like Sasuke waited behind the door with an axe. Each time Sasuke hit him with chidori, Naruto came back with rasengan, so Naruto was equally trying to kill Sasuke. - Leaving the village that made him and others into a child soldiers (which is a war crime)? Maybe the crime is that nobody is allowed to have a free will in that village? I get it, it's a military village, but Sasuke made it clear that he wasn't planning to go against Konoha, he was going after Itachi, which was supposedly in Konoha's interests. - Or maybe crime was going to Orochimaru? Orochimaru who actually did (and most probably still does) some war crimes but was pardoned and attended Hokage's wedding. - there's also part where he wanted to end Konoha's and other village's war crime record and reform the world but no, we are happy with child soldiers, genocide and power imbalance. The actual words of the argument were "change their idyllic system". Idyllic system. The system was idyllic. - 'joining' Akatuski? Sasuke had never cared about Obito's goals and turned on them almost immediately. - Only thing that seems like an actual violation is attack on Bee, although Bee wasn't actually harmed. And it doesn't specify as war crime, Bee isn't a civilian.

So what is Sasuke's unforgivable crime, the war crime? What he did that was worse than for example - what Orochimaru had done?

[the-real-sasuke-uchiha]

LOL, this is so funny. The Uchiha neutralized the scoundrel and released his prisoners, you racist shit. It was YOUR pupil, standing there by your side, who enabled the scoundrel and let him torture and experiment with humans. Funny scoundrel seems to share your deranged hobbies, huh, wonder where he got those ideas from. You should all shut up your mouths and learn morals and decency from the Uchiha, you shameless criminals, your hypocrisy is boundless, YOU HAVE NO SHAME.

[moon-trees]

i think my favourite sasuke feat has gotta be when he uno reversed orochimaru. the disrespect - rinsed him of all his training, got his summons, learnt his tricks, and then when he didn't need him anymore, he just goes and absorbs him and steals his techniques. king shit.

[sasukeuchiha-24]

Sasuke Curse Mark Orochimaru

[sklives]

Hello cuties, how ya doing? ✨⭐

Well well, I was watching Naruto again cause the Brazilian dub was released and I realized something that I don't know if every fan of team taka is aware of.

Isn't a secret to anyone that Sasuke saw team taka as his own family just like team seven and that every member in team taka resembles one of team seven, right?

Well, the first time I read and saw this

I thought that Juugo was some kind of representation for Kakashi to Sasuke, but then I realized that Juugo represents Sasuke himself and then Sasuke became Kakashi's representation in team taka, the leader, but not just that, it's what Kakashi said one time. 

This conversation between Orochimaru and Suigetsu only reinforces this idea too.

Like, he says that Juugo, Karin and Suigetsu, just like Sasuke, they are free now, but at the same time it's implied that they are now with Sasuke as Taka and not Hebi anymore. Some other translations said “You are not my snake anymore.” So, it's much stronger and significant.

And for Juugo we see him as a member of a cursed clã that needs someone to put him in a “cage”. 

It's funny seeing that Juugo needed it like just two times, one was Sasuke and another time was with Suigetsu and then I realized that this ‘cage’ is indeed the team taka. 

At the very beginning team Hebi wasn't a peaceful team, they weren’t in tune with each other and this was a trigger to Juugo’s rage, but as time passed his impulse of killing stops just as team hebi became more harmonious.

The other time he couldn't control it was when all of them were apart, Juugo and Suigetsu were in one of those Orochimaru’s hideouts and Suigetsu was murmuring about the situation.

This scene isn't in the manga, but somehow it feels important because it was at this point that team hebi began to be something more than just a bunch of people sticking together, they became some more to each other somehow.

You know what? I like team taka the most because they had so much in common, they shared a lot of things and even though Kishimoto didn't show it, it was implied that they, even during those dark years with Orochimaru, knew each other's history and lived together like that.

I want to write something more detailed about that, well…

Juugo wanted to be alone because of his own strength and Sasuke himself choose the loneliness to become stronger and somehow the two of them find freedom in they respective teams

Sasuke and Juugo are two gentle souls that were corrupted by they respective clans and by the evil in others

[emosuigetsu]

One of Kishimoto first drafts was actually Sasuke protecting Naruto from bullies and respecting his title as ninja! Could someone translate?

[brutally-soft-godess]

Have we forgotten this panel too soon? “Remember that it’s Sasuke who defeated Orochimaru and freed us all. When you’re out I want you to spread the word, tell everyone you meet... A man is now among us who will bring stability and peace. You got that?”

[nartml]

My blood boils every time, every damn time, I think about how Sasuke was treated. Specifically in comparison to Orochimaru. That absolute scumbag was the true definition of evil, and he got off with just a slap on the wrist??

And Sasuke, someone who didn't actually commit any significant crime other than killing Danzo (which, good for him btw) and wanting to destroy the village (wanting to do something and actually going through with it are two worlds apart), someone who just wanted justice for the shit the system has put him –and his family– through, gets treated so disgustingly? They want to lock him up for what? For the actions caused by the trauma they put him through? Fuck that.

It's ludicrous to me how some people are okay with that? How do some people not see how fucked that is?

Yeah, no thanks.

[comradefleur]

this was so fucking RAW like sasuke being lauded as a revolutionary force instead of villainous scum...more pls! it fucking sucks that in the end the other members of taka had to end up all being orochimaru's "followers" again like .... kishi always knows how to acutely ruin an excellent thing. but anyways. WE LOVE SUIGETSU! AND SASUKE!

[sassykinzonline]

say orochimaru, i heard you like em young

you better not ever go to cell block one

to anyone who has kekkai gekai blood

just make sure you hide your little brother from him

they tell me kabuto's the only one who gets your hand me downs

and hes at the party playing with his nose now

and hes got a weird case-- whys he around?

certified scientist? CERTIFIED PEDOPHILES

WOP WOP WOP WOP WOP

"Sas, fuck em up!"

WOP WOP WOP WOP WOP

imma do my stuff 😤

why you trollin like a bitch aint you tired?

tryna bag a body and its prolly A MINORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[the-real-sasuke-uchiha]

It is of a paramount intellectual dishonesty to present Sasuke's departure to Orochimaru as some sort of "defection" or "treason" against Konoha, when it was actually a blatant negligence of the village. It was Konoha who failed to protect Sasuke and every single one of Orochimaru's victims by 1) VERY knowingly letting Orochimaru do as he pleased, 2) exposing children to death and foreign attacks by having them fight each other for profit and 3) leaving Sasuke alone and without support after learning he had been targeted.

It is like watching a predator groom and harass a child while you do nothing and then blame the child for it. Peak, disgusting hypocrisy.

[moon-trees]

makes me laugh how sakura is known for being sasuke obsessed, but i'd say she's pretty much bottom of the list for the severity of which certain people are obsessed with him.

[sasukeuchiha-24]

Sasuke Curse Mark

[sklives]

Hello cuties, how ya doing? ✨✨

Well well, I was watching Naruto again cause the Brazilian dub was released and I realized something that I don't know if every fan of team taka is aware of.

Isn't a secret to anyone that Sasuke saw team taka as his own family just like team seven and that every member in team taka resembles one of team seven, right?

Well, the first time I read and saw this

I thought that Juugo was some kind of representation for Kakashi to Sasuke, but then I realized that Juugo represents Sasuke himself and then Sasuke became Kakashi's representation in team taka, the leader, but not just that, it's what Kakashi said one time.

This conversation between Orochimaru and Suigetsu only reinforces this idea too.

Like, he says that Juugo, Karin and Suigetsu, just like Sasuke, they are free now, but at the same time it's implied that they are now with Sasuke as Taka and not Hebi anymore. Some other translations said “You are not my snake anymore.” So, it's much stronger and significant.

And for Juugo we see him as a member of a cursed clã that needs someone to put him in a “cage”.

It's funny seeing that Juugo needed it like just two times, one was Sasuke and another time was with Suigetsu and then I realized that this ‘cage’ is indeed the team taka.

At the very beginning team Hebi wasn't a peaceful team, they weren’t in tune with each other and this was a trigger to Juugo’s rage, but as time passed his impulse of killing stops just as team hebi became more harmonious.

The other time he couldn't control it was when all of them were apart, Juugo and Suigetsu were in one of those Orochimaru’s hideouts and Suigetsu was murmuring about the situation.

This scene isn't in the manga, but somehow it feels important because it was at this point that team hebi began to be something more than just a bunch of people sticking together, they became some more to each other somehow.

It's interesting that this scene in anime was made like, one year after the chapter 414 where Sasuke recognize them as something important for him.

You know what? I like team taka the most because they had so much in common, they shared a lot of things and even though Kishimoto didn't show it, it was implied that they, even during those dark years with Orochimaru, knew each other's history and lived together like that.

I want to write something more detailed about that, well…

Juugo wanted to be alone because of his own strength and Sasuke himself choose the loneliness to become stronger and somehow the two of them find freedom in they respective teams

Sasuke and Juugo are two gentle souls that were corrupted by his own clan and by the evil in others

[vulpisnocturna]

Thinking once again about Sasuke being put in ninja prison for his “crimes” and Orochimaru becoming the comedic relief in Boruto because human experiments, destroying the village and killing the ninja president are perfectly okay things to do. Also thinking of how one of his child experiments stalks him and his trauma is also reduced to Scooby-doo type of investigative work